In this insightful conversation, Shadi Bartsch, a distinguished professor of Classics at the University of Chicago, explores her unique interpretation of Virgil’s Aeneid, the influence of her Iranian heritage on her understanding of the classics, and her forthcoming book on Chinese interpretations of classic literature.
She also discusses the Romans’ relationship with art, the role of women in Virgil’s Aeneid, and the psychology of power in ancient Rome.
Most political parties, most ideologies, most governments use very similar rhetoric to represent utterly different situations. But that’s because there’s basically an agreed-on rhetoric of what it’s good to claim you stand for. – Shadi Bartsch
Impact of Iranian Heritage
Bartsch’s Iranian heritage has shaped her interpretation of the classics.
She was first introduced to the Greeks from the Persian viewpoint and then learned about the Persians from the Greek perspective.
This dual perspective made her aware of the similar rhetoric used by different political parties, ideologies, and governments to depict varying situations.
Surviving Texts and the Ancient World
Bartsch discusses the representation of the ancient world in the surviving texts.
She suggests that the texts that have survived were likely the most popular ones, as decided by the ancients themselves.
However, she acknowledges that it’s difficult to determine how much has been lost and how representative the surviving texts are of the ancient world as a whole.
Virgil as a Political Philosopher
Bartsch regards Virgil as the greatest political philosopher of ancient Rome.
She suggests that, like Aristotle, Virgil understands that sometimes poetry can be more truthful than factual truth.
The Underworld in the Aeneid
Virgil’s portrayal of the underworld in the Aeneid is more vibrant and bustling than Homer’s.
However, there are inconsistencies in the text that challenge the narrative, such as conflicting claims about the Romans’ lineage.
Decoding Virgil’s Aeneid
Virgil’s Aeneid is not a straightforward historical account.
The poet himself presents multiple versions of history and Aeneas, suggesting that his work is just one of many possible narratives of Rome’s development.
This implies that the victor’s story is always a selection from a range of options, and Virgil consciously navigates through different traditions.
Romans’ Perception of Art
Despite not considering themselves as artists, the Romans created works like Virgil’s Aeneid, which have been celebrated as masterpieces for centuries.
Bartsch emphasizes the importance of understanding art, citing the example of the Trojans who were easily deceived due to their lack of knowledge in the art of rhetoric.
Insights from Roman Psychology
The Romans had a transactional relationship with their gods, which they used to rationalize their actions, such as going to war.
This offers valuable insights into the psychology of power in ancient Rome.
Challenging T.S. Eliot’s Assertion
Bartsch disputes T.S. Eliot’s claim that Virgil’s Aeneid was the first poem sympathetic to the Christian mind, arguing that this assertion is largely nonsensical.
Cultural Relevance of Long Poems
Bartsch doubts that long poems will regain their cultural centrality due to the modern lack of patience and empathy for texts written in different registers or that seem to discuss archaic or outdated values.
Like Aristotle, [Virgil] understands that sometimes poetry is truer than truth. – Shadi Bartsch
Learning Latin and Mandarin
Bartsch shares her experience of learning Latin and Mandarin.
She self-taught Latin using a textbook and believes it’s effective to learn it as a written language.
However, for Mandarin, she emphasizes the importance of learning from a native speaker to avoid misunderstandings.
Future of Ancient Manuscripts
Bartsch is optimistic that significant new manuscripts from the ancient world will continue to be discovered.
She explains that archaeologists are still exploring areas where manuscripts are known to exist but have not been found, and the technology for reading these papyri has significantly improved.
Women’s Role in Virgil’s Aeneid
While women’s voices are often suppressed in these epics, they are not entirely absent.
Bartsch argues that male translators of these epics have often overlooked moments where women’s voices are genuine and truthful.
